Submited by B. Keith Peshak
512-863-0994
keith.peshak@gtwn.net
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Date: 8/3/98
Time: 2:00 - 5:00 PM
Location: EAA Museum (Batten Board Room)
Attendees: (List Attached / Excel File)
Federal Aviation Administration
- Headquarters
- William J. Hughes Technical Center
MIT - Lincoln Laboratory
NARCO Avionics
Garmin International
Allied-Signal
B.F. Goodrich Avionics
II Morrow, Inc.
Small Aircraft Manufacturers Association
Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association
Experimental Aircraft Association
Aircraft Electronics Association
Digital Flight
Purpose/Objective: To provide the representatives of the General Aviation industry an opportunity to meet associated FAA representatives and discuss issues relevant to the manufacturing, operation, maintenance and testing/quality of transponders in General Aviation Aircraft.
Minutes:
I opened the meeting with a welcome to the attendees, stated the purpose and presented an overview of my responsibilities as a member of the Secondary Surveillance Team.
We then asked the group to introduce themselves by going around the room. The full list of the 25 attendees is included with their point of contact information.
Paul Fiduccia (SAMA) stated that the goal is/should be to avoid accidents (safety) and develop cost-effective solutions.
Nick Talotta (FAA, WJHTC) provided copies of his transponder study conducted last year at Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh. The study is titled "A Field Study of Transponder performance in General Aviation Aircraft", Catalog number: DOT/FAA/CT-97/7. An in-depth discussion followed regarding methods by which the data was collected, transponder anomalies discovered, the sample's ability to represent the GA fleet, the "Stealth" problem with Terra prior to the AD and the NARCO's discovered during the study, quality of avionics maintenance and the validity of the biennial transponder check.
A discussion developed with NARCO, who stated that they complied with FAA requirements to do an analysis verifying that their TSO-C74 transponders did not exhibit the "Stealth" problem characteristics. Marty said that they complied and the FAA was satisfied.
Based on the study results, I asked Marty if he would allow us to work together with NARCO to confirm that the transponder study uncovered an anomaly that is not an inherent design/manufacturing characteristic. Marty said he would talk to his management and thought that it could be worked out. We would like to perform the same test procedures using the same test equipment at their facilities to validate the test and analyze the perceived problem. There is some concern that installation problems could exist in the fleet.
Rick (Allied-Signal) stated that we should assess the impact of the transponder anomalies to NAS system safety and define the floor or minimum acceptable levels.
A lot discussion developed around the biennial transponder check which many felt could be accomplished by other methods. Many would like a more flexible method such as having the option to conduct operational checks with air traffic on some defined frequency basis (i.e. monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, etc.).
Doug (AOPA) indicated that AOPA and it's members would like biennial alternatives that are more preventative in nature with out increasing cost. He said that there is a rise in the number of AOPA members which have received FAA correspondence requiring them to have their transponders checked. Often this is prior to the end of the biennial period or in some cases after they've recently had a check. He also said that some are found to operate normally when they are checked. There is concern that in some cases the problem could exist in the Mode-S or Beacon Interrogator system. He would like me to look into the possibility of trends where the ground sensor had problems and might have led to these situations.
Paul asked me to see what the FAA can do to fix it. We feel that it is possible, not probable and will look into it.
There was also a lot of time spent on TIS (Traffic Information Service, AND-450/AND-700). There is great concern over the deployment schedule and the coverage. There was general consensus that information is not available for people (users and manufacturers) outside the FAA to determine where and when the service will be available. SAMA and ADS-B would like full TIS coverage within 100 nautical miles of the Mode-S sensor to improve coverage.
Paul also asked the FAA to look into possibility of continuing Nick Talotta's study. I have taken this as an action item.
Paul asked EAA to take an action item to call the owner's of the NARCO transponders that exhibited the "Stealth" problem to see if they would allow NARCO to do further analysis.
The general consensus was that the meeting was successful and a viable method for exchanging information and addressing concerns. It afforded all involved the unusual opportunity to meet face-to-face and discuss relevant current and future issues.
I want to thank all involved for making it very positive and successful. Please provide any comments and minutes I may have overlooked. I will circulate the information received and wish to serve as a focal point for future transponder/surveillance issues.
John Marinaro
FAA, AND-450
Secondary Surveillance Program Office
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